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EatMeReturns

Balancing issues or am I just bad?

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There have been multiple times my first combat has been against two cruisers and I experience powerlessness against them. I'm sure I could be a little more efficient with squadron micro but two cruisers seems a little much for the very first fight. Thoughts?

 

Additionally, I encountered a combat at the start of the second sector against TWELVE drones! I actually believe I played this combat pretty effectively since I happened to have a fairly AoE weapon but was still ultimately overwhelmed fairly quickly.

 

I'm wondering if I'm missing a core strategy or if the game is in fact harshly balanced.

 

Great game, love the content and art and music and everything! I can't wait for the full release.

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Hello there,

I'm the gamedesign man from the staff!

First of all, you're not bad, the game is hard. That's how we balanced it (because all game designers are sadistic people deep inside), but don't worry because we are carefully looking at the community feedback to adjust it to your liking ?.

The goal is to balance the difficulty from the beta players experience and then derivate some difficulty mode from it, so keep the feedback coming!
At the moment we are aware that, although feasible, the game lack some graduation in it's difficulty curve, you have to understand most of its tips to be able to handle all the situations. Have faith in your skills !

The fact that you have hard encounter at the very beginning  is surprising a lot of player and we are currently working on solutions to smooth the experience.

 

We have so many work to do!  Thank you for the feedback and the heart warming compliment. We are eager to hear feedback like yours, keep it coming so we can make a game to be remembered!

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I have few questions regarding the strategy to opt for.

Red zones and orange zones:

Like FTL, you can rush out to the end but obviously if you do that you will get crush, you can greed all the systems even in the red zones.

I tried few hours to rush to see how far I could go, didn't ended well, which is coherent and makes sense.

I tried few hours in the red zone, and it's really hard and it doesn't seem like there is any point in staying in red zones unless you lacked Neon-N and you are late compared to the fleet.

My question is about orange zones: are they harder than "regular suns"? have they better loot? Is it just to warn that the red zone will be there soon or an actual change in difficulty?

Coward ship:

In the first fight, I feel like the most optimized way to fight is the following:

  • Look at the type of opponent the enemy ship spawns (one in the first Stars)
  • Deploy the matching Rock-Paper-Scissors ship
  • Destroy the few unit while spamming the weapon
  • If you play heal or critical effect, just undeploy the ship to protect it and finish the opponent flagship with weapon

That sequence is very repetitive and often end up with the fact that most of the fight is just use the weapon on the opponent's ship, which is pretty slow and boring.

Heroes:

How do other people play with Heroes? I feel like I either pick Heal or "Inflict a critical effect to the enemy ..." at the start, and I never touch at it, because it's slow to change it during fights, and usually once you have started with one, you keep it.

I know heroes are used for expedition, so obviously you change them when they die in expedition; but other than this case, do other players change their heroes tactically?

Upgrades and fuel:

Which upgrades are to prioritize?

My first reflex was to prioritize fuel, because out of fuel makes the fleet move, which increase the difficulty for nothing, and the lack of Neon-N usually snowballs, it keeps getting worse and worse. But it turned out the fuel can be found for cheap in stores, in addition to the refill of fuel in the sun.

I usually save scraps for the Squadron Dock, in order to deploy multiple ships and increase dps, and weapon dock if I get a weapon.

I don't know exactly when to upgrade the Focus Points, I just put them when I have extra scrap.

I never used the following upgrades:

  • Battleship life, because it's too passive
  • Hero Dock, because it's too greedy to invest 150 scraps in it. Maybe it's too expensive?
  • Expedition Shuttle Size, because expeditions are pretty rare, and you usually lose lots of commandos at each expedition, so not worth it

Strategy guide:

I feel like the developers know already a lot about what's optimal and what's not, and for new players, it's really hard to learn.

Usually, in this situation, people would look up on the internet to find a guide to explain the basics on how to do a solid run, so I think it could be cool if the developers explained in a wiki or forum thread, like the FTL wiki, the basics of the game and how to do a run.

Star Map bugs and glitches:

I am not going to talk about the Star Map display bug that was already reported.

I figured out that if you were to click in a different Star while you have already selected a star to travel to (during the animation):

  • You travel to the latest star you clicked on
  • You keep the info of the first star you originally wanted to travel too

In the following screenshot, I was in Entrance, I clicked on the Terid System (the one on the bottom), then on the "middle one", that is still listed as "???" and then on the Auchbia System.

image.thumb.png.7ce0dad15a8ebdd3432f1c7652489562.png

Is this intended? Technically, I think it's not find because you reveal information you shouldn't be able to know about a system you've never visited.

Streaming:

Is it allowed to stream the beta on Twitch? I would like to see how other plays on the second sector and it would help to share strategies.

Conclusion:

I am looking forward to the next build, I really hope the game can be clearer or easier for me to understand, I feel like I am lacking some knowledge to do a run and it's frustrating.

There is definitely potential in this game, keep up the good work!

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You're not bad, I am having the same issues here. Maybe a little too hard right now but I do feel there is a change in balancing especially in rewards and scrap.


Probably tone down the heavy focus on RNG and enemies. Enemy squadrons are just way too overwhelming and after 2 or 3 jumps I just got crushed (but hey maybe I am just bad). I certainly feel more disadvantaged than the enemies (which compared to FTL, I was still disadvantaged but it felt organic enough to progress; whereas here I just find it hard for being the sake of hard - making it less enjoyable along that fact)

Focus more on lore per sector (like sector progression based on factors or a combination between two?). I am finding the lore part of the game the most enjoyable (and a great selling point too!). I think ALT SHIFT GAMES have nailed the story part and just the atmosphere is beyond perfect. I find that this is the most important part of the game, and it is definitely what drew me in to backing this project and buying the game. This aspect definitely sets it apart from FTL.

 

In conclusion
I love this game, and it has sooooo much potential, but I think the game needs more of handle on new players not in terms of controls, but better interfaces and more balanced enemies but slowly progressing with the player to the point that in later sectors it is challenging but enjoyable (to achieve that aspect of being hard but enjoyable game).

Its frustrating because I can't enjoy the game's lore and story because of the issues stated previously.

 

Keep up the good work, this a unique project and by far a very promising game

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The game is still pretty young and the main objective of the beta is to balance it, so thanks to all of you for posting your experiences! As a tester of the demo and beta, I have found efficient (but maybe not optimal) ways to defeat your enemies. I will only say this: purchase a second squadron dock asap. And a third. 2 focus point for each dock, and as soon as you can deploy 3 squadrons, things get really doable.

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Ok so you go for Squadron 3 then Focus Point, or Squadron 2 -> Focus Point -> Squadron 3 Focus Point. I do the latest personally.

Also, do you ever buy the other upgrades? I usually upgrade a little bit for refueling in Stars.

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Don't feel bad you're not bad the game is still working on its balancing. In one of my playthroughs On my first system jump I encountered a church ship that was able to spawn two sets of drones a fighter and a cruiser. Not all at once mind but still way more then someone could feasibly hold off right at the beginning of the game 

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Here are the crazy adventures of Admiral Idaho, well,  those of those clones number 2,3,4,5... who all ended up burned in the cosmos.
Just a few quick remarks and hot thoughts:

-To meet an Akibara ship as of the second jump, with 3 squadrons, a weapon, then still 3 squadrons, and two bars of life, it is a little hard from the start, to see even a sentence to death ^^ An increase a little more "soft" of the force of the enemies would be sympathetic, all the more so as the level of threat announced was 1.

- I don't always understand critical damage. Sometimes a single fire while you lose a life bar, other times it's two stuns, and a double fire all at once... panic on board.

-Can be a numerical indication on the life bar of the ship? just by passing the mouse on it? what do you think?

-The expeditions: still no way to act on, what do you think of a system where scrap could be sacrificed to give them a small advantage, or to call them back on board if things go wrong?

Here, just a few thoughts on the spot, in any case despite the difficulty I still want to work hard to make this crew survive. I still enjoy playing in this universe that reminds me a lot of SF references that I love: Dune of course, a little Battlestar Galactica for the uniforms and brainstorming on the bridge ^^, a little Incal, Jodorowsky and Gimenez in the designs of ships and enemies, well that's really cool!

Sorry if English is not perfect ?

 

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37 minutes ago, Sevriss said:

Can be a numerical indication on the life bar of the ship? just by passing the mouse on it? what do you think?

This would actually be incredibly helpful; I passed my cursor over health bar(s) multiple times instinctively and was always thrown off when no numerical values appeared.

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18 hours ago, Sevriss said:

The expeditions: still no way to act on, what do you think of a system where scrap could be sacrificed to give them a small advantage, or to call them back on board if things go wrong? 
 

 

 

I personally feel like expeditions need to be enhanced some. I don't mind the RNG aspect of it as you're given a general idea of your likelihood of success before you embark. But to me it feels like there is no point in ever retreating before the mission is complete. I had an instance where one encounter injured 4 of my commandos, Instinctively when I was given the option to retreat I hit the button. Luckily I read the prompt before accepting I would have lost all my injured and all the scrap I'd collected. It feels like there is no reason to retreat I'm sure injured commandos might increase the risk your hero gets injured but giving up all my injured would further limit future expeditions and I would have gotten nothing for my trouble.  I guess what I'm trying to get at is it feels like having a retreat button feels pointless I either see it out and maybe have a few commandos die but I get a boatload of scrap and maybe even a weapon. Or I hit retreat loose all my injured and scrap. If the retreat was a bit more balanced in that maybe total gained scrap was cut in half and I lost one or two injured because they facilitated a retreat by covering the rest of the squad would add a bit more balance to the system but this is just my personal opinion I would like to hear what others think of the expedition system. I know someone said they felt expeditions were rare but I've had playthroughs where  3 consecutive jumps I had a planet to explore

Edited by The-Doc-is-in

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I agree on the retreat mechanic for planetary missions is extremely harsh. Unless you are about to lose the hero because you had nothing but bad events it's better to push on and take whatever comes. Also, the estimator for needed skills may need to be looked at. I had a 4 skill hero have 2 green skills  (only had green and orange before) for a planetary mission and the mission ended up a total loss.

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10 hours ago, GM Jake said:

I agree on the retreat mechanic for planetary missions is extremely harsh. Unless you are about to lose the hero because you had nothing but bad events it's better to push on and take whatever comes. Also, the estimator for needed skills may need to be looked at. I had a 4 skill hero have 2 green skills  (only had green and orange before) for a planetary mission and the mission ended up a total loss.

Yeah devs said they wanted to make the closed beta punishing so they can adjust for upcoming updates and releases, I just avoid planetary stuff because of how punishing it is to be honest (although probably should do it)

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Hello I will copy past my post from steam:

 

Bonjour le team

Voici quelques suggestions / retours :

- à la fin du combat s'affiche le "Fight Report" qui cache la vue, on ne peut pas "admirer" la belle explosion du vaisseau détruit, ce qui peut être un peu frustrant.

- Après une défaite et un restart, je me rends dans le 1er système (seules 2 menaces), et là je tombe directement en combat, l'ennemie m'envoie un grand nombre de vaisseaux, environ 5 "troupes" des fighters et des drones.

Il était d'après moi IMPOSSIBLE de gagner, mes troupes "Anti fighters" ont perdu contre des "fighters" qui avaient une jauge remplie à moitié (1 vs1), puis mon Vaisseaux a été détruit en quelques secondes.

Je rappelle que c'est le 1er combat du 1er système, je n'ai aucune amélioration etc .

Et le message disant que j'ai perdu à cause de mes mauvaises décisions m'a achevé ?

Si le jeu est trop déséquilibré, il sera dur de tester les mécaniques, il faudrait au moins dépasser le 1er combat ?

Bonne journée à vous !

----------------

English trad:

Hello the team;

here is some suggestions / returns:

-at the end the fight displays "Fight Report" which hides the view, we cannot "admire" the beautiful explosion of the destroyed vessel, what can be a little frustrating.

-After a defeat and a restart, I go in the 1st system ( only 2 threats), and there I was directly in fight, the enemy send a large number of vessels, approximately 5 "troops" of fighters and drones. 

It was according to me IMPOSSIBLE to win, my troop " Anti fighters " lost against "fighters" which had a filled capacity half (1 vs1), then my Vessels was destroyed in a few seconds. 

I call back that it is the 1st fight of the 1st system, I have no improvement etc.

And the message saying that I lost because of my bad decisions finished me:)

If the game is too much unbalanced, it will be hard to test the mechanics, it would be necessary to win at least the 1st fight:)

Good day to you!

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Hello Spectra,

I am a french backer too.

I agree that some of the first fights are too hard, I ended up with pretty high rolls (6 troops/multiple waves).

However, you should definitely keep on trying because those high rolls are unlikely. Give it another try!

"1st system ( only 2 threats)" It means 2 threats per Sun/Star/System, not 2 threats per beacon. So it's unrelated to the dangerousness of the beacon.

Also, it's true that most of the decisions you take can be bad, take a look at FTL; and it seems few backers ended up pretty far in the game; they made the good decisions and invested a lot of time in the game.

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21 hours ago, not_a_roman said:

Yeah devs said they wanted to make the closed beta punishing so they can adjust for upcoming updates and releases, I just avoid planetary stuff because of how punishing it is to be honest (although probably should do it)

I would advise at least going to the planets because sometimes they can proc an encounter before you start the expedition which can yield valuable stuff. My personal rule for encounters is the hero I'm sending must have a minimum of one yellow skill set and one green or I won;t embark. But even on encounters where you might lose half your commandos you can come away with 300+ scrap and/or a weapon. On the note of punishing I don't mind so much but sometimes it feels less like I miscalculated and I am suffering the consequences of that and more like I'm playing a game of DnD and I pissed off the DM so he's taking my character outback and shooting him like a feral dog. But overall I do love the aesthetic of the game. Asimov is one of if not my favorite author and this game makes me feel like I am apart of a foundation novel 

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Salut Specta,

Ne lâche pas, le jeu est parfois une vrai peau de vache sur l'aléatoire, il m'est arrivé aussi d'avoir des débuts de partie impossibles, mais c'est assez rare. Le boulot actuel de la beta consistera (je pense) à justement bien équilibrer cette difficulté.

Hi, Specta,

Don't let go, the game is sometimes a real cowhide on the random, it also happened to me to have impossible beginnings of game, but it is rather rare. The beta's current job will consist (I think) in precisely balancing this difficulty.

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As for expeditions, I always try them if I have an orange skill line. On the one hand for discovery ( for science!!!!) and on the other hand because it can pay big money! On the other hand the rng for the success or failure of the missions is still obscure for me. I've made successful expeditions with an orange skill line and lamentably screwed up another one where my hero had green skills...

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Sevriss, I will not give up, I played FTL maybe 100 hours in easy before I won my first game !

Ok I'm perhaps not good at it but I did not give up ?

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Hello everyone ( @The-Doc-is-in, @PackSciences, @not_a_roman, @GM Jake, @EatMeReturns & @Specta)

We have worked on the game fight difficulty progression, and you can now test it in the new version of the Beta (and maybe FINALLY fight the final boss ^^).

You can download it now by using the same URL as you used to download the previous version.

You want to know more the new features and bug fixed in the new version? Take a look at the Changelog.

Feel free to post your feedbacks here ?

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